Joel responded, Sorry, Mordicai, Your point is well taken. It wasn't meant to seem that those who beleive such and such are evil, we all are learning. Including me. But I still believe that it does not come from God's word. I will be glad to discuss this further with you. You suggest looking first at this verse:

1 Peter 3:18-20| "18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom[4] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built."

If we search it out I think that you will find that a correct understanding of this passage will be shown by noting the following facts:

Men, you and me, Our Grand Parents, There Great grand parents, ect, are never spoken of in Scripture as "spirits". Man has a spirit, but he is not "a spirit", for a spirit hath not flesh and bones". In this life man has "flesh and blood", a "natural" (or psychical) body. At death this spirit "returns to God Who gave it" (Ps. 31:5. Eccles. 12:7. Luke 23:46. Acts 7:59). In resurrection "God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him" (1Cor. 15:38). This is no longer a "natural" (or psychical) body, but a "spiritual body" (1Cor. 15:44).

Angels are "spirits", and are so called (Heb. 1:7, And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. And 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?).

In 2Pet. 2:4 we read of "the angels that sinned" ( and in 1Pet. 3:19, 20 of spirits "which sometime were disobedient ... in the days of Noah". In 2Pet. 2:4 we are further told that the fallen angels are reserved unto judgment, and delivered into chains (i.e. bondage or "prison"). Cp. Jude 6.

The cause of their fall and the nature of their sin are particularly set forth by the Holy Spirit in Jude 6, 7.

First, they "left their own habitation".
Secondly, this "habitation" is called in Greek, oiketerion, which occurs again only in 2Corinthians 5:2, where it is called our "house", meaning. body, with which we earnestly long to be "clothed upon"; referring to the "change" which shall take place in resurrection. This is the spiritual resurrection body of 1Corinthians 15:44.
Thirdly, this spiritual body, or oiketerion, is what the angels "left". Whatever that may mean, and this I do not know. The word rendered "left", here, is peculiar. It is apoleipo which means to leave behind, as in 2Timothy 4:13, 20, where Paul uses it of "the cloke" and the "parchments" which he left behind at Troas, and of Trophimus whom he left behind at Miletum. Heb. 4:6, 9; 10:26. and Jude 1:4 which state that they kept not their first estate, Greek arche, in which they were placed when they were created. The nature of their sin is clearly stated. The sin of "Sodom and Gomorrha" is declared to be "in like manner" to that of the angels; and what that sin was is described as "giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh", which is in Jude 1:6 and 7. The word "strange" here denotes other, or different. The Greek word is heteros which means a different in kind. What this could be, and how it could be, we are not told. We are not asked to understand it, but to believe it.

In Genesis 6 verses 1 ,2, and 4 we have a historical record, which is referred to in the Epistles of Peter and Jude. There these "angels" are called "the sons of God". This expression in the Old Testament is used always of "angels", because they were not "begotten", but created, as Adam was created, and he is so called in Luke 3:38. You can compare that with Genesis 5:1. It is used of angels eight times in these verses. Genesis 6:2, Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Psalms 29:1; and Daniel 3:25. In this last passage there is no article, and it does not mean "the Son of God", but "a son of God", meaning an angel who was sent into the furnace, as in Daniel 3:28, as one was into the den of lions which occurs in Daniel 6:22. In one passage, that being Hosea 1:10, the English expression is used of men, but there the Hebrew is different, and it refers only to what men should be "called", not to what they were.

Now returning to 1Peter 3:19, the expression "the spirits in prison" cannot be understood apart form the whole context. The passage commences with the word "For" in verse 17, and is introduced as the reason why "it is better, if the will of God should will, to suffer for well-doing, than for evil-doing. FOR in verse 18 denotes that Christ also suffered for sins once, Greek being hapax, meaning a Just One for unjust ones, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death indeed as to His flesh, but made alive as to His spirit." This can refer only to His spiritual resurrection body like that of 1Corinthians 15:45. In death His body was put in the grave, or sepulcher, meaning Hades, Acts 2:31; but His spirit was "commended to God". Not until His spirit was reunited to the body in resurrection could He go elsewhere. And then He went not to "Gehenna", or back to Hades but to Tartarus as 2Peter 2:4.points out. It is where "the angels who sinned" had been "delivered into chains". To these He proclaimed His victory.

Also did you know that the word rendered "preached" is not the usual Greek word euangelizo, but the emphatic word kerusso, which means to proclaim as a herald. Even so Christ heralded His victory over death, and the proclamation of this reached to the utmost bounds of creation. It was "better" THEREFORE to suffer for well doing than for evil doing. He had suffered for well doing. He suffered, but He had a glorious triumph. "Therefore", continues the exhortation, "if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye", this being as you see here, in verse 14. And it concludes, "Forasmuch then as Christ suffered on our behalf as to the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind; for He that hath suffered in the flesh hath done with sin; no longer to live our remaining time according to men's lusts, but for God's will... For to this end, to those also who are now dead, were the glad tidings announced, that though, the Greek being "men", they might be judged according to the will of men, in the flesh, yet, Greek being "de", they might live again according to the will of God, in the spirit", meaning in resurrection, 1Peter chapter 4 verses 1, 2, and 6.

This is what I suggested as to the interpretation of the expression "the in-prison spirits", in the light of the whole of the nearer and remoter contexts."

Dan, "Thank you Joel. I do then have some questions for clarification. So who are the "spirits in prison"? Are they humans who died? Or were they fallen angels? Or both? Also is "preached" or "herald", what ever it may be, an actual act in which words or some spiritual medium was used for the understanding of the "spirits in prison"? Now if the answer to the second question is yes, then does this not conflict with the idea that spirits "know nothing"?

I do really appreciate both of you going through this with me. I have so many questions, and I am sure my wife will ask me many so I would like to be very prepared, which means that I hope that you are prepared to face more questions and explain other scriptures to me. Now, I don't expect you to have all the answers, an honest "I don't know" at times is fine with me, I won't hold it against you. I'll be weighing the support you will give against those of my belief."

Tommy, "Dan, your like many people, and maybe rightly so. Our beliefs are held at the highest esteem. And so most of us do weigh what is said against what we believe, instead of what is written. I am not putting you down for it, because I am certainly that way. But I do hope, that in this discussion between us that we can put all that aside, to keep this a learning experience."

Dan, " I am trying. I really am. It is not easy. I have been taught so much since I was a kid. But, I don't think I listened very well when it was taught. That is why I was going to see the Pastor today. But this is nice. So lets continue then. Joel, could you answer those questions for me?

Ain't that life 4